Monday 1 September 2008

I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygeia and Panacea and all the gods and goddesses...

I think we have done a good job at keeping optimistic.

Let's face it, we have had no bad news, no one who's said that we can not, will not, or even might not, succeed.

Continuous failure takes it's toll, but almost without fail, we take our day or two to be down, and then get back up and go for it again. Full force, full optimism, full hope.

One of the big supporting factors in us managing to get back up every time, is the knowledge that we have the support of experts. People specially trained in what they do, people specifically motivated to helping people achieve their goal of becoming parents.

This may be in the form of advice, or drugs, or invasive procedures, but it is always there, a safety net if things don't go according to plan.

It doesn't take a genius to see that things have not gone to plan.

Today ET spoke with the specialist, to discuss the results of the monitored cycle, and as expected everything seems perfect.

Follicle development, hormone levels, thyroid activity, all in good order.

So what should the next step be?

A HSG perhaps? check those tubes for some silly blockage, a laparoscopy maybe? and have a peek in there to see what's going on. What about another monitored cycle? or even some advice on how to maximise our efforts without any outside intervention?

If you picked any of those, you are wrong. So very wrong.

If you picked 'I'm sorry, there is nothing more we can do for you right now, go home and keep trying' you get 10 points.

If you picked that, along with the wonderful advice to 'don't let it rule your life' you get the 10 points and go to the top of the class.

That class being 'fertility treatments and people skills', apparently.

EDIT: I'm gutted no one mentioned the title. I thought it was bloody clever, and laughed for hours. Heartless, heartless bunch you are.


Bluestreak said...

"Don´t let it rule your life"??!!!

Or, "Stop thinking about it/stressing over it and she´ll get pregnant". I bet you´ve heard that one before.

People suck.

Sarah said...

They actually SAID that?! Holy shit. Did you have to bail ET out of jail for trying to gauge their eyes out?

Is there another clinic you guys can go to? Seriously, those guys sound like tools!

MarĂ­a said...

I got the 10 points, but I'm not at the top of the class. I'm getting annoyed for you...

Jill said...

I have 2 words for you...

Medical Tourism

nh said...

Poo and lots of it! I wanted them to say, 'do this and everything will be wonderful'.

As to 'don't let it rule your life' - do these people have children? Did they try any more than 3 months for them? Do they know how soul destroying it is when you want something and month after month after month you get such an unpleasant reminder of the fact you it hasn't happened yet?

Sorry, so sorry - and I'm sending pyschic death threats to these people!

Anonymous said...

Crap. That bites. I'm so sorry. Having a structured plan of what procedure to do next is 50% of what keeps you going through the evil quagmire of sub-fertile misery.

Our GP said something similar to me when I went to see him right at the beginning. 'Go away, see what happens', type remark. I sobbed all evening, because I knew that wasn't the answer for us. He'd told me that I had the only case of two uteri he'd seen in his entire bloody career, for God's sake, and he still didn't think it warranted a bit of conception-concern. I went back a day later and told him I wasn't happy, and that I demanded a referral to assisted reproduction, privately if necessary, and he immediately capitulated. Grrrrr.

If this isn't the answer that you feel is right for you, nag like buggery for another one.

And keep humping, obviously. Not because I like reading about it (although I do) (in a good way) (I'm in a hole now) (arrrgh) but because it is still quite likely (useless as it sometimes seems when you're down) to just... happen. After 2 years of IUI and IVF, it turns out our stingy-with-referrals GP was right... it did just... happen. I hope it does for you too.

Russ said...

Did they pat you on the head condescendingly when they said that?

Anonymous said...

Will hold down the person who told you not to let it rule your life while you kick them eighteen shades of lavender if you like.

Not even an SA? That least invasive and medicalised of all possible fertility tests? (Or have you had one of those already?).

I am extremely angry on your behalf.


Is there such a thing as a dutch infertility forum or similar online somewhere that you could get tips for how to deal with the system from?

Putz said...

you know that we eat lots of jello in utah, and statistics prove utha leads every one in jello with bananas in it just ask russ he know about a study of colgeled desserts...

Anonymous said...

Well that was helpful.

Anonymous said...

ugggggggggggggggh! They used the successful monitored cycle against you, didn't they? I knew it. If anything you probably should have wished for a wonky cycle that didn't go according to plan because then they'd be forced into action.

Did they give you a time frame on how long you'll have to keep trying before they will look into any other tests?

I don't think she's going to get the HSG test after having a good cycle during the time they were monitoring it. They did one on me because my eggs and ovulation were completely fubar when they looked.

Are you going to try another doc? I would just keep switching until you find someone more proactive. There has to be one out there... somewhere. This country isn't that big.

Given any more thought to Belgium?

Anonymous said...

Christ on a bicyle - that is unbe-fucking-lievable. Someone mentioned medical tourism - i think that really is the way forward. I'm so sorry.

Anonymous said...

Oh lord. I think I'm going to go throw up now.

Anonymous said...

I don't understand why they won't do an HSG. I had one last month, even though I take clomid and I ovulate. If her tubes aren't blocked, and HSG actually raises your fertile-ness for the next 3 months. I was actually able to get pregnant after the HSG. It ended in a chemical pregnancy, but it did clear the cobwebs, so to speak. I say demand an HSG! I just don't understand why they won't do anything proactive! Demand an hCG trigger shot! Why are they sitting on their asses? I'm so frustrated for you. I know how hard this is. This is currently my 14th cycle TTC.

Jo Beaufoix said...

Bloody hell. Do they teach them to patronise like that in Med school?

They'll be telling you a watched kettle never boils now, which is such a lie. Gits.

Liz said...

Oh man! Didn't they notice during ET's textbook cycle you DIDN'T GET PREGNANT. Again. Pester power. Its the only way.

Tara R. said...

I think a public flogging is in order, or stocks and lots of rotten plant matter.

Karen MEG said...

You're freakin' kidding me right???!!! I so wish you were.

To hear that from a specialist... you'd think that would be one of the first "DO NOT SAY THE FOLLOWING ..." statements. I mean,they're not your grandmother. Sheesh.I think that would set me right off.

Don't let that get you too down though... this is but one specialist right? I do hope you have other clinics, other specialists you might be able to access.

As frustrating as it was for us, at least I had the feeling that there was some progress, with each test, with each reason potentially ruled out. Even if they were minute ant steps, the feeling was enough to keep me going.

Don't give up... I know it's easy to say, but please, please don't.

Sue said...


I agree with previous posters: think about medical tourism.

Thinking of you.

Anonymous said...

So your sperm is 'perfect'. ET's cycles are 'perfect'. She ovulates 'perfectly'.

And yet, they still don't see that 18 months after starting trying, she is still not pregnant? It honestly sounds like there is something definitely NOT perfect in there.

Nothing more they can do? They are a FERTILITY CLINIC!!!

James (SeattleDad) said...

Don't let is rule your life? What are they fucking Psychologists? Maybe that is half the problem, if they would stop doling out lame ass mental advice and get with what they are supposed to be good at, then maybe, perhaps, you would be done with them already!

Anonymous said...


More like a snicker actually

Anonymous said...

I get 10 points. I knew that was the answer you would get...sorry!
it F'n sucks. Don't let it rule your life? assholes!!!
I hate to say this, but you will hear this no matter who you go to. I know you want to hear something is wrong, a diagnosis of some sort. That way you can have a game plan. But I'm tellin' you, keep going. Have ET do the acupuncture. This will happen. After being involved in the infertility community for 5 yrs now, I have heard all the horror stories. But in the end, there is ALWAYS success. Stay strong and keep your eye on the prize.

Hilary (Maya Papaya) said...

Boo. That's on par with the whole "Just relax" sentiment that we all hate so much.

I'm sorry you're not getting the assistance you so deserve.

Hang in there. Thinking of you guys.

Anonymous said...

If I were a swearing kind of girl, this comment would be full of nothing but expletives.
However, as I am not (shut up, i am not) I will just say how completely and utterly frustrating for you and for ET. How down right dismissive of those people in high places, who should be helping you, not smacking you on the hand and telling you that it should not rule your life.
I might just have to come over there (I'll pick up our own Ivory Tower guy on the way) and take to those doctors with a dildo cam.

Angie [A Whole Lot of Nothing] said...

Don't forget:

"Just calm down - it will happen"
"I'll have your baby for you"
"What about adoption"
"Take a vacation and it will happen"

I think I'm quoting myself...

Anonymous said...


This system only encourages others to lie in future and to say you were trying for 2 years.

I would seriously be considering doing some tests in another country.

and yes, you do a great job of keeping optimistic...most of the time;)

Ed (zoesdad) said...

How was this doctor able to complete his day with your boot imprint on his balls? You did kick him in the balls when he said that, right?

Sandra said...


So now you wait for the next stage I guess? Now 7 mths away?

Anonymous said...

Yikes. I thought you said these guys were seasoned professionals. On a side note, I have a friend doing research on the efficacy of acupuncture for fertility treatment and the smallish study's early results clearly indicate a positive correlation. So I hope ET finds an acupuncturist soon!

River said...

This totally sucks. I think you should take a holiday here in Australia, get some treatment, then go home once you're pregnant.

Anonymous said...

send em to the bar, ill put some anthrax in their drink to see how they handle adversity

Martin said...

@Bluestreak - Not 'people' - Doctors. A fucking doctor said that.

@Sarah - This is our second set of specialists in the area.
They all follow the same line. Circles.

@Immoral Matriarch - please do, I don't have the energy.

@Jill - it's not sounding as insane as it has done in the past.

@nh - I don't know their circumstances, and honestly I don't want to. would drive me demented.

@Hairyfarmerfamily - good point, and true, it CAN of course still happen naturally, we'd prefer it to do so.
But them pulling the plug for now is overwhelmingly disappointing and frankly, hinders natural efforts.

@Russ - they might as well have.

@nutsinmay - support in this faux-communist shit hole? no.
We've had the SA (2 of them) a while back, after an initial scare, every seems good enough.

@Putz - er, ok. I'll bear that in mind.

@Tismee2 - like tits on a bull.

@Breigh - I knew it too. What I didn't know was how fucking annoyed I'd be.
2 years for any next steps.
This was our 2nd place, the first had given the same story.
We may go back, fuck all left to lose.

@bsouth - me too.

@Marie - you can use my bucket.

@pixypink21 - demanding doesn't work here. Nationalised system. Follow the procedures or step aside.
Good luck to you.

@Jo Beaufoix - bloody hell indeed. mind boggling.

@Womb for improvement - its like they say fucking engine is perfect, so they wont look at it, even though it doesnt fucking start.

@Tara R - fuck fruit. rocks.

@Karen MEG - I'm not kidding.
This is the second. same story.
as someone has previously said, even if they gave us a pill of flour and water, it would be a huge boost to THINK you were making progress and someone gave a shit.

@STE - fuckers. fuckers indeed.

@Veronica - nothing more they WILL do more like.

@James Austin - that is good advice, if it was given 18 months ago perhaps.

@Tanya - I'll take that as support...

@Anonymous - I dunno about there ALWAYS being success, but yes, you are correct otherwise.

@Hilary - Thanks.

@Tiff - I'll do enough swearing for you.

@A whole lot of nothing - er...ok

@Sinead - YES. it IS encouraging people to lie to them. instead of being upfront fools like us.

@Ed - this ambassador of science and people was a woman. the fairer sex.

@TW - yes.

@Monique - Complimentarily, acupuncture has a good rep. stand alone, I'm not so confident.

@River - Holiday is about all I can squeeze out of that.

@Joe - don't waste it on them, give it to me.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, X. Another blow. (And I'm commiserating, not being vulgar or suggestive.)
Harness some of that positive stuff from your previous post - you've got a game plan. Stick with it. We're here, rooting for you. (Except in my case, being shamed by not rooting NEARLY as much as some.)

Anonymous said...

And I've always bitched about the medical care in this country. I guess it's a positive, after all, that at least over here you can get pretty much anything you want if you're willing to pay for it. I never realized there would be instances where that would be a good thing.

This is one of those times, huh.

Anonymous said...

Fat hopes! If I anthrax'ed u, I'd be hard up (pun not intended I swear)for reading material..besides, assisted suicide aint my broth! Murder, is a different juice altogether.

Anonymous said...


You think they'd know better wouldn't you? *shakes head*

Anonymous said...

was this one wearing Crocs?

Yeah. I got nothing. I wanna say something witty or supportive or something but, shit. F*ck. Dammit. Arsehat.

And don't let it rule your life? You got a blog FFS! Throw the boy a bone doc.

V said...

Two words- "shock therapy"

No, no, no...not for you and ET. I'd like to take some electrical paddles to those wormy docs and shock them into reality.

How much longer do you have to wait before they do more tests/exploring?

Bluestreak said...

Xbox - yeah, they get a giant F (for effing idiot) in Bedside Manners 101/How Not To Be An Insensitive Ass 101.

AnnD said...

I just don't get it man! 18 months is NOT normal! How can they do NOTHING?!!?! Have you asked them, at what point, will they start intervening? I mean...wehre is the freakin' line here....are they still saying they won't do anything until the two year mark?

Chaos said...

OK my vote is fertility professionals know jackshit! I have always hated the "don't think about it and it will happen" statements. A duh how exactly are you not to think about it when you have to time everything you do?
Sorry Xbox, was hoping for better news.

Christi said...


Sorry X.

Martin said...

@Amy - I thought you were offering!

@Angel - This IS one of those times. No doubt.

@Joe - Don't knock it till you've tried it.

@Bettina - Yes, quite...

@Kelley - That about sums it up, yes.

@Kathryn - As it stand, 6-7 months.

@Bluestreak - and breathe....

@AnnD - Yes, 2 years.

@Chaos - Me too, me too.

@Christi - Thanks Christi, yes, fuckers indeed.

Jason Roth said...

WTF? After 18 cycles that's just rude.

Are there other docs to see?

Anonymous said...

What can I say? Guess it's time to pack up and move to a place where they will at least give you some options...some...hope?
Come on over to the states man - pack your shit and you and ET can live with us for awhile -

Anonymous said...

Fucking Assholes.

Perhaps it is indeed time to come to a magical land where you can have any medical procedure you'd like, two if you so fancy, as long as you're willing to pay out your ass for it. It's called America, and they'll probe you 'til you're purple if your purse is deep enough. If you're really lucky, they'll even remove the wrong organ while they're at it...

Kori said...

Um, yeah. Don't you think you should just try to be happy without kids? Ha. Shit all over that. What a bunch of insensitive, unfeeling assholes. Aaaargh.

Anonymous said...

Or the whole, don't be so stressed... Just relax.

Uh huh, ok, let's just turn the stress switch off.


Anonymous said...

How much bloodshed was there? How big was the doctor's black eye???

Robin said...

Wow, that is the most insensitive thing I think your doctor could have done next to pointing and laughing at you. WTF!!!

Anonymous said...

Xbox, sorry to hear the shite news. I guess I get 10 points, I had a feeling they would tell you that. Bastards telling you to focus on something else in life.

Maggie, Dammit said...



Why does my ten points feel darts?

SciFi Dad said...

Damn. That's a pretty shitty response from a doctor (says the guy who posted about not being stressed as the way they overcame secondary infertility).

I'll just stand over here now.

Anonymous said...

First time visitor (but I LOVE your comments on Magneto Bold Too)...can I offer a bit of hope? My hubby and I did all that doctors even had us have sex first thing in the morning and then held my legs over my head...I shit you not....I insisted that we start on drugs...can you possibly insist on that?? Have they tested to see if she is allergic to your swimmers (OMG...yes, they do test for that) took us several years and several cycles of clomid (I didn't have to go to the perganol) before I got pregnant...but then miscarried...BUT then got preggers again within a couple months and without the drugs (thought my little gift was actually a tumor)...

I guess what I'm trying to say is to keep the faith the best you can and when you can insist on things...insist.

Oh, I now have a 27 yr old daughter (Lilacspecs) and a 24 year old son.

Anonymous said...

LOL! Nope, sorry.
Mind you, even if I was offering you'd no doubt refuse as I reckon you wouldn't be able to get past how 'wasteful' an activity like that would be at this point ;)

Anonymous said...

Hotmamamia does have a point. If ET has a sperm allergy, her body is killing off the troops everytime they invade. She'd probably know - burning/pain/discomfort post relations, but generally subsides quickly. At least that's a mild reaction - I think she'd know if there was a severe allergy. Docs say the test is whether any pain/discomfort is completely eliminated if you use rubbers. Just another thought. (If you're wondering, I'm told the solution is artificial insemination so as to get past the point where the allergic reaction is taking place.)

Anonymous said...

Dude, leave that fool-ass country NOW! If that is what the system is giving you, get out! Go to Ireland for a month and let them poke at yous.

I learned on Monty Python that the Irish have like 20 kids a piece. Plus, with Luck o' the Irish you'll be squirting out the varmints in no time.

Did you ever check out that NaproTechnology/Fertility Care contact? Is this crap you getting from them? or the state?

Your docs' comments are useless; you'd have gotten more support from a random guy on the bus: "I'll take a stab at it, mate."

Missives From Suburbia said...

Fuck them.

No, seriously, I've had it with their bullshit. Where do I call? I'm pretty persuasive via phone.

Yo said...

what about "attention to detail"? that has to be in there somewhere, right?

River said...

Try looking at it a little differently now. Two years before any "real" help IS a long time, BUT, you've already done 18 months, ONLY 6 months to go........

Just trying to cheer you up a bit.

The Microblogologist said...

I'm just a microbiologist and I know there are things they could do, liars! I'm with Joe, and maybe throw in some botulinum toxin for good measure.


Martin said...

@iVegasFamily - Rude indeed, that's one word for it.

@Darcie - Be careful what you offer around here ;0)

@RRP - Sounds like heaven right now!

@Kori - Idiotic eh?

@Christa - I'd forgotten about that switch, maybe I could just take out the batteries...

@Kittyconcerto - Not enough Kitty, not enough.

@Robin - Yep, it would have been easier and better to say NOTHING.

@Deno - The advice came 18 months too late, wasters. Total wasters.

@Maggie, Dammit - Oh indeed Margaret, Oh indeed.

@SciFi Dad - A bit to the left, I've a clearer shot there...

@hotmamamia - hi, & welcome!
I wish I could fuly explain how unwavering and inflexible the Dutch systems are.
We will get drugs if THEY deem it right, and no amount of insistance will change that.

Well hello Lilacspecs Mammy!

@Amy - Of course I'd refuse...;0)

@RRP - Yeah we know about the possibility of a hostile environment, but we've never noticed any reaction, with or without, in 11 years.
That aside it would be nice to know for sure, but the first clinic we saw told us they will no longer perform post coital examinations as they are too unreliable!

But I do personally think it's a transport problem, environment, blockage, erratic swimmers, or a combination.
And an unmedicated insemination would go a long way.


@GeeksinRome - You have no idea how tempting it is to pack up and run off somewhere, but as always, life isn't that simple.
We checked out the Napro thing, huge in Italy and Ireland but only one practicioner here, with 16 million people six months would be very very optimistic to get things moving.

Totally agree about the guy on the bus, he cna have a go if he likes...

@Missives From Surburbia - I'd love to hear that conversation....
The Dutch seem to clam up and be even more inflexible when they hear an American accent!

@ms. changes pants while driving - you would think eh?
detail is not in their 'procedures'.

@River - I know. It's now a balance of staying sane, and working out what's the best thing to do. Try elsewhere or hold out.
All I know is, not having support from doctors, in any form, makes 'trying' very difficult.

@The Microblogologist - funny, some of our best friends are microbiologists. Maybe I can tap them up for lethal chemicals...

Anonymous said...

fucking fuckers fuckity fuck fuck fuck....

Proseaholics said...

That's exactly what you need to say to yourself. Keep knocking away! You can always send them around if they push you over the edge.

Micro, send some of that toxic stuff over...i'll experiment on a few friends. Practice makes perfect, you know?

Anonymous said...

*I meant I was laughing at them ('specialists') not you!

Anonymous said...

Wow. That's the dumbest piece of assvice I've ever heard. I hope that wasn't from someone at your clinic...if so--RUN!
Hubby and I have been going full-steam ahead for more than 5 years. We would be SO behind had we listened to assvice like that.

Martin said...

@Frogpondsrock - my thoughts exactly.

@Joe - You've lost me.

@Tanya - I know, just kidding you, thanks.

@noswimmers - It was our fertility specialist who told us that. The bloody doctor.

Momo Fali said...

How you've managed to refrain from smacking someone who says such things is truly amazing. I'd have punched someone good and hard by now.

Martin said...

@Momo Fali - right in the bridge of the nose!

Anonymous said...